Backdoor Debtors' Prisons?

Isn’t this the reason our forefathers left England and other countries to come to this country. No one should have to go to jail because of a debt unless it is due to illegal activities.

According to the Constitution of Indiana it is illegal to place someone in jail over a debt apparentlly the judge is a moron who doesnt even know the law of their own state

The funny thing most people do not know their rights. And they definitely do not know their history or how their rights came about? It is sad that the judge who has been practicing law either doesn’t know about this or he is using the ignorance of the people to make more state wards. But all in all it seems that the country with the most freedoms has the most people in jail.

When I still had anything at all, I thought about filing bankruptcy. The big problem was I couldn’t figure out how to pay for it. There isn’t enough information out there for people like me.

Sad…because there are judges all over that think they can do as they please….why harrass someone like this…that probably doesn’t even have enough to get by on with SS disability….some of these judges need to be treated like they treat people…most would shrivel up and not know how to survive without their 6 figure salaries!!!!! Guess they thrive off of their power!!!!!

What a waste of resources! Even the sheriff himself, couldnt he educate the “uneducated Judge” How dare the sheriff could waste state resources to chase-up an indigent who appears can not afford his own food! Poor guy!

Hey you Judgewhy didnt you offer to settle the debt on behalf of this poor man? Where is your heart?

People should know how to spend their money and know their limits….this is why the country is in such a mess with the economy…spending beyond their limits!
AND WHO PAYS FOR THESE STUPID PEOPLE!
I do in my taxes and raised prices on items at the stores.
Yes, these people should be stopped and go to jail to stop spending.

Evidently the judge slept during the Revolutionary War History class. How many other people won’t get paid if he’s in jail? Did the judge think she was on T.V.?

The ruling was total crap! People get into debt, it happens – but jail for debt is crazy. We have a little thing called the Bill of Rights and our Declaration of Independence – what country did this judge come from, because that sure wasn’t an American value.

How about we judge and rule on the companies that jack up interest rates, who approve loans they shouldn’t and basically take advantange of un-wary consumers. How about putting compaines on trial who try to steal our futures?

First of all…all of you are missing the point. The judge is misleading the debtor into making a court statement (which would be entered as a judgment that he must comply with or go to jail) that he will pay $25 a month…she is badgering and misleading the man. As to this being a Revolutionary issue…We didn’t go to war for being led off to jail for being in debt…we raised arms against England for taxation without representation ie: paying taxes without being represented by elected officials in parliament… no wonder judges can get away with this kind of crap!

Unfortunately the Revolutionary war while using debtors prison as one of many reasons for seperating was not actually part of the Declaration or the new Constition and people in the US we sent to debtors prisons in the US for many years after. Robery Morris one of the main financial backers of the Revolutionary War himself spent many years in debtors prison after the war was won.
In 1798 he was arrested for debt resulting from his speculation in land and confined to the Prune Street prison, Philadelphia, from February 1798, until liberated by the passage of the national bankruptcy law in 1802.
So we did not stop debtors prisons via the revolution nor the constitution but a federal law

Hell yeah, I'm glad at least someone has some sense here. That dude needed to get a fucking job!

WOW. It seems more and more the courts are becoming less a house of justice and more a house of business. I understand the importance of not over extending ones self, but it happens. Basic economic teachs the delima of scarcity, unlimited wants with limited resources. I am sure this judge attended a class were this was taught. The raises the question whos brand of interpretation is right? And more importantly can ones interpretation be skewed when money is on the line. Final thought when the courts wants out weigh an individuals needs or this case ability to meet a demand who do the courts really serve? Justice is equity and there is nothing fair in this transcript. So is this justice or a sign that those dresses in robes will soon be divested to nothing more that a collection agency with teeth?

Madena makes a very inportant point here. Not only was the judge abusing her position by trying to make the defendant make a court statement, it appears she is trying to legislate from the bench.

Sure people need to be careful with spending, but what was the debt for. Did this guy just run off and buy a big screen for the hell of it knowing he couldn't pay ever? Or was the bill for a service that he may have had to have to live? Bad things happen to good people we can't just make statements saying things are completely black and white. I am a fan of personal responsibility, but there is always an exception. When we forget this we lose our humanity.

I am not sure why a judge thinks that he/she can just make up stuff because they are wearing some robe.

Guess our wonderful President should be there … trillions in debt with no plan to pay it off … that is the next administrations problem .. right?

Yes, that is where your taxes are really going. Why hold this guy accountable when the government is doing it?!?

Although debt is apart of everyday life, any Judge threatening jail for non-payment even when the debtor honestly tells her what he can pay ($5 a month) has nothing to do with the Judges age when paid off!! Being on Social Security Disability due to an accident not my fault which resulted in “forced” loss of my paralegal career angers me by all statements by anyone that “you” are paying for our misfortune or debts, taxes and are words of a self-absorbed hate filled person. I paid into the social security system for over 30 years before my disability “caused” the situation of having a comfortable income to a menial income and inability to pay debts. When you suddenly lose substantial income and are reduced to crawling under blankets to stay warm because can’t afford to run the heat because your SSD doesn’t allow for it…a choice between running heat or having life’s necessities =food…you self-righteous jerks who think you are paying for those of us who find our lives suddenly changed beyond belief…loss of careers, income and forced to exist on an income we paid into for years…it is a benefit we earned and have the right to collect…you are not paying for anyone on SSD..and this Judge is abusing her position in so many ways she should be removed from the bench. Jail is not apart of the law permitted for debt collection…neither is “forced” payments you cannot make…take the $5.oo offered and be grateful the debtor got that..besides they just write it off as a bad-debt on their taxes so are not losing any money at all..or increase fees etc to paying customers to make up for the loss…so essentially get their money twice or more. I hope none of you who “think” this man on SSD ever have to walk in his shoes…or maybe you should…bet your judgement and mouthy crap would change quickly to a defensive stand then. I’d much rather be working than to have my life completely altered and living on SSD…got a job for me so I can pay my debts? I’ll take it! with great gratitude..”try” to find even a small job to supplement your SSD, which you can do,…employers hear disability and suddenly don’t want you. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Leave the poor guy alone…or better yet..why don’t YOU help him pay the $25.00 a month the Judge ordered …what happened to “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” or “give to the poor”…the history lesson had to even be corrected…maybe some of you need to educate yourselves on history and law before you judge anyone…except the Judge which it doesn’t take an idiot to know intimidation and illegal rulings from the benches of America happen in all our courts every day…it isn’t that the debtor is an idiot..he didn’t go to law school…did you? or do you hire a lawyer? oh ya, poor guy couldn’t afford one so is at the mercy of the Court and unfortunately the Deputies in the courtrooms who get to sit with the intimidated debtor think this behavior by the Judge is funny too…bet the Judge doesn’t put the deputy in jail for his inability to pay his debts…wonder who puts the judge in jail when she can’t pay one of her bills? LAWS “need” to be passed to protect us from Judges and debt collectors like these. I’d like the judge to take my SSD life and I’ll take hers for one month…bet she is begging for her paycheck back…not sure I’d be willing to part with it…

Not only the Constitution of Indiana but also the US Constitution forbids putting people in jail because of debt. I think the only exception to that is Child Support. In Texas people who are behind in Child Support have their debt placed on their credit report. Doesn't that make it a debt? Nevertheless, get behind on Child Support in Texas and you're going to jail…..constitution be damned!!!!

The guy is on disability, which probably means he lost his job. Did he incur the debt BEFORE losing his job? Are these medical bills incurred as a result of being disabled? How disabled is he – partially? completely? You don't know the facts. I'm assuming both people commenting here don't have *any* debt, since they judged the way they did.

I'm glad you wrote in. People forget what it's like to walk in someone else's shoes. God bless you.

I feel no sympathy for people who don't pay their bills.. since when is medical care free?.. which is usually what the "debt" is for when it's in collections.. I am a bill collector.. I do try to work with people.. but saying your on a "fixed income" is a cop-out.. We are all on a "fixed income".. Electricity is not free, neither is gas or groceries.. so why is it that people go to the emergency room or just the doctor, get their life saved and not think they have to pay for it and think that saying , I can't pay, I'm on a fixed income will magically make their bills go away. Most of the agencies in Indiana.. (where I used to do collections) offer assisted programs letting people pay as low as $5 a month on their debts..people still don't pay their bills.. Obviously there is an exception to every rule and some people just don't have a dime left at the end of the month.. Maybe if people would go back to relying on their familiy when ends don't meet instead of the government, things and people would change..

part 2
I hear excuses from all kinds of people with all kinds of backgrounds and income.. the bottom line is people find $ to pay what they want and don't for what they aren't concerned about. I am awe stricken that sometimes peoples lives are saved by the very people that they now refuse to pay. I'm sure if digging further you will find that this "social security non-bill-paying person" has a little more to the story than that is being broadcasted..

sometimes people get approval to pay $5.00 a month.. and there is a long process in filing suit.. and then again to not pay.. to file for garnishment.. most likely this person never answered their phone, never called after getting letters, or attempted to pay, or even if they agreed.. they didn't follow thru. People need to stop playing the victim and start being more accountable.. It all starts with communication and when that line is broken, these issues arise. Whatever the debt is, a call to the office would have likely prevented collections to begin with. We are all on fixed incomes, people living outside their means is what causes this reaction. no, we can't expect emergency medical care, but there are resources if people would actually take the time and find them.

some one kindly pass this same ruling on all the banks that received a bail out

In the law of you reap what you sow, I would hate to be this judge. Maybe the judge should read the parable about the rich man and the poor man who died. Who was asking who for a drink of water?

Obviously you are either all attorneys, or none of you have ever spent any time with one. This whole blog is B.S.
In the first place these “respectable attorneys” want you to believe this is over some poor slob who owes on a consumer purchase or similar debt, again B.S.
The man evidently owes “THE COURT” money…and yes she CAN put his butt in jail for not paying.
Even if the man were being sued by unsecured creditors all the court can do is find in favor of the creditor and issue a judgment for the same. They can put leans on real property…. PERIOD!!!
No judge, not even the stupid ones would make that comment in civil litigation…. An attorney on the other hand has no morals and will “lead you to believe” anything that will put money in their pocket.

Tiffany,
I completely agree with and many others who have posted here. I am so sick of dead beat people who refuse to take responsibility for their bills. I can relate to not having a job and not having money but that doesn't negate the responsibility to the bill and if you cant afford to pay your bills then maybe you are living outside your means and need to change your lifestyle. Lets face it we are all on a fixed income and you now how much money you make each month and you know how much your bills are going to be (within reason) so if you see you cant make your bills maybe you need to stop smoking so much, quit drinking, get a roommate. There are plenty of people out here who do what they have to do to make ends meet, it may inconvenient but it has to be done. The excuse of being on SSD is so tired, that's no excuse they should have their checks garnished for their debts, if your going to be on a government program then you should have no delinquent bills. Its the absolute lack of responsibility people take for their actions that has put this country in the state it is. Yeah i know what its like to make 3k a week and go to literally living on a park bench but i did WHATEVER needed to be done to get back on my feet and with no help from anybody not even the shelters, they told me because i was a male with no children i couldn't stay and we wont talk about the red cross. The 5.00 a month that deadbeat was trying to give, yeah that would have been good if he would have done that from the beginning years prior to going to court but no all the way to the end it was the poor me crap , i cant pay. Unfortunately its the deadbeats like him who think that companies should write off the debt, this is the very reason why things are over priced and companies are going out of business, try calling the electric company and tell them F-you i didn't get a bill and im on SSI/SSD and im not paying but if i choose to ill give you 5.00 a month because that's all i think its worth, but you wont get that for another 2 years from now, i think somebody might be sitting in the dark. One last rant for those who wine about not being able to buy food. Do what my grandparents did for food before walmart GROW,HUNT,and FISH it. Seemed to work for millions of years before Sam Walton it just might still work.

Thanks,

The 300lb Gorilla

well i can assure you if someday it is your mother who cant pay her bills because she is eat up with cancer and some idiot like you is calling daily most times 5 or 6 times a day you would feel different i mother could barely get up yet they wont leave her alone and let her die in peace not sure where at 84 they thought she could get a job to pay her bills all i heard from her dreditors was she had perfect credit until well duh then she got sick and had to make a choice treatment medicine and food she had no luxuries didnt buy new clothes wore hers year after year didnt have a new car and family did help her but what idiot credit card company would let a woman that age borrow 30,000 dollars on a card anyway so they have their self to blame so til you walk in their shoes dont judge them

So what does he do all day? Sit around? He has no possible way of earning money? I think he should at least explain what he has tried to do or what he is going to try to do instead of just insisting that he can't pay.

Essentially, he just said "I get disability checks and that's the only chance for money that I have." I don't think that's good enough.

I dont have any sympathy for the corupt Attorneys and Judges! Our own government gets away with not paying debts everyday! Guess what, Most of the people in America are cattle anyway and are lead by example! So if our leadership doesn't set the example then this is what you get. How bout we stop spending money to this war and focus on taking care of our own right here.

First of all Shirley, you need to become more familiar with the laws of this nation before you start spewing things you've heard from ohh lets say former President Bush. You don't pay for a damn thing as a tax payer. You live in a world where banks and finance companies charge up to 30% interest on accounts with a single "late payment" Did you know that Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Citigroup, Capitol One, Discover, etc. have been fined for holding their customers payments until the due date passes to collect additional interest and late fees totaling 100s of Billions? Did you know that they do this every year? Do you know that we purposely make the fine print so that's illegible to the average consumer, and then send our very crafty sales people out there to give you a brief description as we oh so solicitously have you sign here and initial there? Just because you have been fortunate enough to escape our snares, or not have a major hiccup we can exploit doesn't mean you're necessarily smarter. It just means we haven't gotten to you yet. Here are people that have driven major companies into the ground AIG, GMAC etc. how would you like to find out today or tomorrow that your job is gone? Worse still that your job and pension are gone? This is happening to hundreds of thousands of people across America. How would you like to work for an employer who tells you everyday your environment is safe, only to find out the asbestos, or melted plastics were not "well within tolerable levels" or your equipment wasn't the correct equipment, and now you find yourself sick and on disability at a fraction of what you used to make? How about being a member of the military that finds themselves disabled? Or finding that being on disability your medicine cost are so high $6,000.00 a month for which your co-pay is nearly $1,000.00 a month. In other words Shirley, Bob, guest, you're dumb asses at best. Fortunate ones since you haven't been impacted but still dumb asses none the less.

Everyone needs to become more familiar with the laws of this nation before you start spewing things you've heard from ohh lets say former President Bush. You don't pay for someone else's debt as a tax payer. For the most part you're paying for unscrupulous business practices on behalf of finance companies. You live in a world where banks and finance companies charge up to 30% interest on accounts with a single "late payment" Did you know that Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Citigroup, Capitol One, Discover, etc. have been fined for holding their customers payments until the due date passes to collect additional interest and late fees totaling 100s of Billions? Did you know that they do this every year? They're fined just once, maybe twice. It's so lucrative that the practice well pays for the fine. Do you know that we purposely make the fine print on contracts and so that's illegible to the average consumer, and then send our very crafty sales people out there to give you a brief description as we oh so solicitously have you sign here and initial there? Just because you have been fortunate enough to escape our snares, or not have a major hiccup we can exploit doesn't mean you're necessarily smarter. It just means we haven't gotten to you yet. Here are people that have driven major companies into the ground AIG, GMAC etc. how would you like to find out today or tomorrow that your job is gone? Worse still that your job and pension are gone? This is happening to hundreds of thousands of people across America. How would you like to work for an employer who tells you everyday your environment is safe, only to find out the asbestos, or melted plastics were not "well within tolerable levels" or your equipment wasn't the correct equipment, and now you find yourself sick and on disability at a fraction of what you used to make? How about being a member of the military that finds themselves disabled? Or finding that being on disability your medicine cost are so high $6,000.00 a month for which your co-pay is nearly $1,000.00 a month. In other words Shirley, Bob, guest, you're dumb. Fortunate ones since you haven't been impacted but still dumb none the less.

AIG, GMAC, etc. were driven into the ground by 1) Democrats and their policies, and 2) Unions.

It is people like you that causes this problem. "so why is it that people go to the emergency room or just the doctor, get their life saved and not think they have to pay for it and think that saying , I can't pay, I'm on a fixed income will magically make their bills go away. Most of the agencies in Indiana.." I hear right wing people say, we do not need universal health care, they can go to the emergency room. The people that come here from other countries can go to our emergency room and get service and not pay. I am on SSD, and have full Medicaid, I am one of the lucky ones. I wish a judge would say that to me! You are so wrong, Is a person suppose to die because they can not go to the bank and draw out the money and pay their bills? I watched my mom go without medicines because she could not afford them and THE FAMILY EITHER DID NOT HAVE IT OR WOULD NOT HELP HER!!!! I did not have it to give to her or I would have. She waited till she turned sixty-five to get the help she needed, and then died two months after she finally got help. She was more worried about the bill collectors then her own health. I really do not like your statement, you must be one of those right wing extremist!!!! Furthermore, if you have to go to the emergency room more then one time, each visit is a new bill, therefore a new payment.
I hope the universal health insurance will pass, that would be one problem fixed. Don't hollor long lines, and the government messes up everything, one, for the people like me and my mom, there is no line to get in. No insurance, no preventative health care. "ALL THE EMERGENCY ROOM HAS TO DO IS STABILIZE YOU, THAT'S IT!" if THE PRIVITE SECTOR COULD FIX THIS PROBLEM, THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT YEARS AGO.

What if they can't fish, hunt, or work a garden! Your a complete moron. That is why back then the average age to live was thirty-five, back then if you was not married by age thirteen, you was considered too old. People like you have read too many right wing propaganda blogs or maby your just that kind of person?

I know that the court is owed, but if the man can't pay, the court should have to take five bucks a month.; I am sitting here wondering what will be next, well your poor, can't live within your means, so were going to put you in jail and do it for you? Rather it is a court or a creditor, if you do not have it, you do not have it!

Sam's, Wal-Mart and places like that will bring up the price on their goods to recover for lost or stolen goods. Same with the creditor, through interest rates, doctors bills, and other, they will raise their prices to the insured to compensate for the uninsured or otherwise people who can not pay. While the general population does not pay a tax on un-paid bills, the prices will be raised on the consumer so in fact, you are wrong on that. I am with you 100% on everything else.; I am on SSD myself..

I am not an attorney, but I have been through bill collectors. I know that SSD can be garnished. However should it be? Some of you make it sound like five bucks a month is nothing. I have seen many people who had nothing and five bucks would have meant a meal. I am shocked at just how many people listen to people like Rush, and the savage nation. It is the lower class who will suffer the most, and the ones who are in middle class will pay the most. The wealthy will not suffer, not like we do anyway.

and who pays for the jails and the people who operate them? THE TAXPAYERS!!!!!!!!! Why don't we just let the REAL criminals out on the streets to make room in the jails for the poor people who had some bad luck or made a few bad choices. Being poor is not a crime!

I would like to know if the debt was medical or not. Many on SSI and SSD wind up with a ton of debt from copays and ambulance bills. Many hospitals have forgiveness policies, but often these are so hidden or ignored that a debt is sent to a collection agency before an application can be made. Oregon Health Sciences University Hospital (run by the state of Oregon) is one of these. Often those suffering from severe PTSD or depression are often unable to even apply for such since their own conditions prevent such. The same applies to those in chronic pain. But then again, we are talking about a system which is set up to make the rich richer and keep the poor in their place . . .

According to the debtor's own admission, he had income (albeit a meager one from disability.) He was paying for things which he had not yet incurred a debt. It wasn't that he "couldn't" pay — it's that he WOULDN'T. He was placing future consumption above repaying a (presumably) lawfully incurred debt.